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You are welcome to do your own research. Conducting a poll is not particulaly difficult and native people were indeed polled endlessly on this subject with the results always being the same. If you have evidence to the contrary then post it. If not, be an adult and yield the point.
I already explained why Danny Boy chanaged the name. Policy is often made by small, motivated groups who are loud a and energized. In this case, they exploited the death of George Floyd and successfully went for the jugular. I would appreciate it if you would actually absorb what is being said to you.
As for Redskins (did the ground open up when I wrote that?), it probably comes from them rubbing red dye on their bodies. Gee ... really egregous stuff there.
I already posted a link questioning the previous polls and presented the alternative argument. I can post more links if you need me too. If Native American activists themselves dispute these results, and I can't see the methodology and cross tabs of the results you say show the truth, why would I concede any point?
And, no polling is not easy in the least. If it were, election prediction markets would not exist, you just look at the polling and know who will win.
None of us have been arguing that the name change wasn't triggered by society's increasing repulsion towards racial stereotypes in product branding that hit a fevered pitch and took down some of the last standing products who used them in 2016. My argument was this was the correct choice, because the word "Redskin" is not an acceptable name for a sports franchise. And yes, that is my opinion, just as you have yours.
We both agree Danny Boy's ineptitude is unrivaled, and that he, as the team's owner, had the final choice of what to do with the business he owned..........and he renamed it after years of VERY vocally saying it would never happen. Liar, fraud, finely saw the light, forced by the other owners, whatever.
I look back at that logo, that name, and how it did take outside pressure before they made a change, and CRINGE. Yup, sorry if that offends you too, but I am not proud to have supported that name for as long as I did. I do think that sometimes modern society, even the vocal minorities, are correct. It doesn't happen all that often, honestly, but in this case, yeah, I agree.
It seems you are also angry that I point out now that the name is gone, it is not coming back, and the delay in changing it missed the window that St. Johns and other used to rebrand subtly, but they did. As mentioned before, and I am compelled to say again, that specific analysis isn't my preference or belief, it is a cold objective statement about how the world works in 2023.........and you don't seem to disagree with me about that in the least, you just feel the need to conflate me in a general sense with the people who forced this name change because I happen to agree with them on certain parts of one particular question: the name of this sports franchise.
Both of us type the word Redskin. We both say it outloud. I don't think the image should be purged from history (I have typed all this multiple times in this thread) but I don't think it is an acceptable name now. See the nuance? Not everything is black and white.
Last edited by westsideboy; 08-17-2023 at 09:43 AM..
I already posted a link questioning the previous polls and presented the alternative argument. I can post more links if you need me too. If Native American activists themselves dispute these results, and I can't see the methodology and cross tabs of the results you say show the truth, why would I concede any point?
And, no polling is not easy in the least. If it were, election prediction markets would not exist, you just look at the polling and know who will win.
None of us have been arguing that the name change wasn't triggered by society's increasing repulsion towards racial stereotypes in product branding that hit a fevered pitch and took down some of the last standing products who used them in 2016. My argument was this was the correct choice, because the word "Redskin" is not an acceptable name for a sports franchise. And yes, that is my opinion, just as you have yours.
We both agree Danny Boy's ineptitude is unrivaled, and that he, as the team's owner, had the final choice of what to do with the business he owned..........and he renamed it after years of VERY vocally saying it would never happen. Liar, fraud, finely saw the light, forced by the other owners, whatever.
I look back at that logo, that name, and how it did take outside pressure before they made a change, and CRINGE. Yup, sorry if that offends you too, but I am not proud to have supported that name for as long as I did. I do think that sometimes modern society, even the vocal minorities, are correct. It doesn't happen all that often, honestly, but in this case, yeah, I agree.
It seems you are also angry that I point out now that the name is gone, it is not coming back, and the delay in changing it missed the window that St. Johns and other used to rebrand subtly, but they did. As mentioned before, and I am compelled to say again, that specific analysis isn't my preference or belief, it is a cold objective statement about how the world works in 2023.........and you don't seem to disagree with me about that in the least, you just feel the need to conflate me in a general sense with the people who forced this name change because I happen to agree with them on certain parts of one particular question: the name of this sports franchise.
Both of us type the word Redskin. We both say it outloud. I don't think the image should be purged from history (I have typed all this multiple times in this thread) but I don't think it is an acceptable name now. See the nuance? Not everything is black and white.
"but I don't think it is an acceptable name now."
And what makes you think what you think is more important then others?
Has been said aver and over, the assistant coach WAS a "redskin" and came up with the name.
His tripe came in full Indian regalia for the announcement
The Indian nation has been polled TWICE and both time around 80% had no problem with the name.
"A Native American group has put the rush on against the Washington Commanders and demanded the organization revert its name to "Redskins" – the name the team adopted when it was in Boston in 1933.The Native American Guardian Association (NAGA) has encouraged fans to sign their petition, which is "designed to promote our history, put an end to cancel culture, and #ReclaimTheName ‘Redskins.’"
The group said more than 80,000 people have signed the petition."
And what makes you think what you think is more important then others?
Has been said aver and over, the assistant coach WAS a "redskin" and came up with the name.
His tripe came in full Indian regalia for the announcement
The Indian nation has been polled TWICE and both time around 80% had no problem with the name.
"A Native American group has put the rush on against the Washington Commanders and demanded the organization revert its name to "Redskins" – the name the team adopted when it was in Boston in 1933.The Native American Guardian Association (NAGA) has encouraged fans to sign their petition, which is "designed to promote our history, put an end to cancel culture, and #ReclaimTheName ‘Redskins.’"
The group said more than 80,000 people have signed the petition."
So, why should we kowtow to a few whose "feelings" are hurt and aren't even Indians?
And looking at your bio, it appears you are more of a baltimore fan then D.C., so what skin is it off your nose?
My opinion isn't more important than anyone else's. I would say it is less important than the opinion of a Native American individual, a current fan of the team, or (maybe most 'important' of all) the team's ownership and management. Just because I am deliberate, direct, and pointed in debate doesn't mean I overvalue of my own opinions, and I thought I was making it clear. When I have a position or opinion based on real personal attachment (like my home) or subject area knowledge (campaigns and elections, mostly on the MD forum) I make sure to present my bonafides. In this discussion I keep saying "It's just my opinion" because it is, nothing more.
I'm honestly surprised you and Moth have dug in this deep on the discussion, mostly about my opinion that the name should have been changed earlier to preserve the ability to keep the brand (Redhawks, etc.) and because I do think the name crosses the line and the writing was on the wall for a decade it would eventually have to be changed. I have legit doubts that are shared by many that those 80-90% approval polls are accurate (again, want to see methodology, most polls worth their salt share their crosstabs, when you don't share, it's a sign of a baked poll, in politics at least) but it's really neither here or there because we all agree the group most affected positively or negatively (Native Americans) were not the reason the name was eventually changed, it was a shift in the dominant culture.
I was a Redskin fan from birth to about 2008 or 2009. That meant about 4-5 years of remembering the Glory Days, and about 18 years of Danny Boy incompetence. It was never my intention to switch loyalty. I always said to my wife "You know I will be loyal to you, look, I am still a Redskin fan." Sean Taylor's death was the turning point. He was the last Redskin player I really liked, wanted to root for. The players on the team in those days was not very likeable compared to the team north on I-95. I didn't see passion on the field, hustle, players who cared. Taylor had all of those qualities, and his death laid bare how lacking they were on the rest of team. Being in Western Maryland, the Ravens were on TV every week too. For a couple of years, I would say I was a Redskin fan, but actually watch the Ravens if the two teams played in the same time slot.......because Baltimore was a more fun team to watch.
Eventually, I gave up the charade and just admitted the Ravens were my favorite team. I'm still married to my wife too, so thank goodness I didn't cascade too far. But yeah, being a fan of Ravens is much more satisfying. I still wish the Nullskins well, they are my favorite NFC team, FWIW.
The sports forum on CD is very different than MD. Generally it is understood there that loud opinions are just that, everyone shouts a bit, and then moves on to something else. Disagreement doesn't always lead to disputes.
Our forum here is a bit feistier. No matter, everyone agrees Snyder is a putz and whatever your opinion on polling, the old name, the feasibility of branding back to Red____something, it all leads back to decades of mismanagement that devalued one of the most valuable and recognizable franchises in sports.
The sports forum on CD is very different than MD. Generally it is understood there that loud opinions are just that, everyone shouts a bit, and then moves on to something else. Disagreement doesn't always lead to disputes.
Our forum here is a bit feistier. No matter, everyone agrees Snyder is a putz and whatever your opinion on polling, the old name, the feasibility of branding back to Red____something, it all leads back to decades of mismanagement that devalued one of the most valuable and recognizable franchises in sports.
Winning would fix a lot.
As I mentioned earlier, I remember when Snyder was hailed for "saving" the franchise from John Cooke.
As I mentioned earlier, I remember when Snyder was hailed for "saving" the franchise from John Cooke.
I think I told my story. The Skins still had training camp up in Frostburg when Danny Boy bought the team. The story goes that Danny landed in the middle of the practice field in his helicopter, some blonde who was not his wife on his arm, took a look around for a couple of seconds, got back in the chopper, lifted off, and the Skins were charging fans to get into Ashburn that very next season.
How much of it is literally true, I am not sure, but I am fairly sure Snyder hated the training camp being up in the sticks, and wanted to monetize the product by putting in the 'burbs and charging to get in and did so win one or two years of buying the team. Nearly sure he had to break a contract to do it, didn't care. The "Home of the Redskins Training Camp" sign stayed up for a few years with some nasty additions painted on it after they ditched us.
It cost the Skins a lot fans up this way, we got an early glimpse of his.........just horrible human nature, I am not sure how else to describe it. The guy made enemies among friends seemingly everywhere he went.
I think I told my story. The Skins still had training camp up in Frostburg when Danny Boy bought the team. The story goes that Danny landed in the middle of the practice field in his helicopter, some blonde who was not his wife on his arm, took a look around for a couple of seconds, got back in the chopper, lifted off, and the Skins were charging fans to get into Ashburn that very next season.
How much of it is literally true, I am not sure, but I am fairly sure Snyder hated the training camp being up in the sticks, and wanted to monetize the product by putting in the 'burbs and charging to get in and did so win one or two years of buying the team. Nearly sure he had to break a contract to do it, didn't care. The "Home of the Redskins Training Camp" sign stayed up for a few years with some nasty additions painted on it after they ditched us.
It cost the Skins a lot fans up this way, we got an early glimpse of his.........just horrible human nature, I am not sure how else to describe it. The guy made enemies among friends seemingly everywhere he went.
I go back to when the team had preseason up in Carlisle. My brother lived there then. Great pheasant hunting back then.
As I said in another thread, as long as there's a Southern Maryland and 10 oz. Buds there'll be an Anheuser-Busch.
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But yeah, being a fan of Ravens is much more satisfying. I still wish the Nullskins well, they are my favorite NFC team, FWIW.
