Considering Hays, Kansas...the good, the bad, the ugly (Lawrence: rent, waterpark)

[KSinmyrearviewmirror]

Originally Posted by mshultz

I have to agree about the cost of housing in Hays. Here are the 2016 mean detached house costs in my area:
Wooster: $158,000
Ashland: $127,000
Alliance: $158,000

And here is Hays: $190,000. It seems to me that Hays increased by at least $30,000 in just the past few years. All of these are similar sized cities.

I've not been to Ohio much, but your comparison is lost on me:

Hays to nearest larger city: 97.1 miles to Salina, pop. 47,707

Wooster to nearest larger city: 35 miles to Akron, pop. 197,633

Although $4/gal gas certainly caused Kansans to rethink their long daily work commute, the lack of additional housing near jobs => willingness to continue to make long commute from cheap housing to job.

Ohio has a population density of 282.3 people per square mile, ranking 10th in the nation, with a total land area of 44,825 square miles, which ranks 34th. Ohio's population is spread throughout the state with many major cities.

Kansas has a population density of 34.9 people per square mile. That makes Kansas the 40th most densely populated state in the US -- so, overall, the state consists of lots of wide open country.

[mshultz]

Originally Posted by KSinmyrearviewmirror

I've not been to Ohio much, but your comparison is lost on me:

Hays to nearest larger city: 97.1 miles to Salina, pop. 47,707

Wooster to nearest larger city: 35 miles to Akron, pop. 197,633

Although $4/gal gas certainly caused Kansans to rethink their long daily work commute, the lack of additional housing near jobs => willingness to continue to make long commute from cheap housing to job.

Ohio has a population density of 282.3 people per square mile, ranking 10th in the nation, with a total land area of 44,825 square miles, which ranks 34th. Ohio's population is spread throughout the state with many major cities.

Kansas has a population density of 34.9 people per square mile. That makes Kansas the 40th most densely populated state in the US -- so, overall, the state consists of lots of wide open country.

If we compare Hays 2016 mean detached house costs to other similarly sized cities in Kansas:
Dodge City: $145,000
Emporia: data not available
Garden City: data not available
Great Bend: data not available
Hays: $190,000
Liberal: $129,000
Pittsburg: $131,000
Salina (much bigger than other cities in these comparisons): $155,000

Also, Hays has greatly increased since 2000:
Estimated median house or condo value in 2016: $173,280 (it was $89,300 in 2000)

As compared to Wooster:
Estimated median house or condo value in 2016: $129,263 (it was $99,800 in 2000)

Housing is expensive in Hays, and I doubt that population density, relative isolation, and the cost of gasoline have much to do with it. Hays has a state university, but so does Pittsburg, where housing costs are much less.

[KSinmyrearviewmirror]

@mshultz: Housing is expensive in Hays, and I doubt that population density, relative isolation, and the cost of gasoline have much to do with it. Hays has a state university, but so does Pittsburg, where housing costs are much less.

So, what do you think has much to do with it? You are aware that SE KS was the most densely populated region of KS, up until the decline of mining?

Up until 1980, Hays was ~ 1/2 the pop. of Pittsburg. This site shows the 2 cities side-by-side (easy to discern pop. differences: Historical Population of the 25 largest cities in Kansas

The counties surrounding Crawford have pop. 3-4 times that of the counties surrounding Hays => greater # of housing units available. I'd be surprised that demand matches supply. Cessna & Amazon closing facilities in SE KS no doubt emptied rentals.

Kansas Population Density County Rank
Rank Population Density ▼ County / Population

10. 66.0/sq mi Crawford, KS / 39,277
20. 35.8/sq mi Cherokee, KS / 21,179
23. 32.5/sq mi Labette, KS / 21,225

24. 32.1/sq mi Ellis, KS / 28,878
59. 7.7/sq mi Russell, KS / 6,959
70. 5.8/sq mi Rooks, KS / 5,174
78. 4.5/sq mi Rush, KS / 3,222
88. 3.3/sq mi Trego, KS / 2,959

[empires228]

Originally Posted by mshultz

If we compare Hays 2016 mean detached house costs to other similarly sized cities in Kansas:
Dodge City: $145,000
Emporia: data not available
Garden City: data not available
Great Bend: data not available
Hays: $190,000
Liberal: $129,000
Pittsburg: $131,000
Salina (much bigger than other cities in these comparisons): $155,000

Also, Hays has greatly increased since 2000:
Estimated median house or condo value in 2016: $173,280 (it was $89,300 in 2000)

As compared to Wooster:
Estimated median house or condo value in 2016: $129,263 (it was $99,800 in 2000)

Housing is expensive in Hays, and I doubt that population density, relative isolation, and the cost of gasoline have much to do with it. Hays has a state university, but so does Pittsburg, where housing costs are much less.

And most of the houses that have been built here aren't very large and are quite shoddy in their construction. The main development is off Hall and I-70.

[Mattks]

Supply and demand is why houses are expensive. It’s a big risk to develop in a city like Hays where the market could potentially become stagnant at anytime. If any major employer goes under or if the school has low enrollment, either would be a big hit to the city.

In the case of Hays, I don’t think density has much effect on home or rent prices, but the isolation of the city does have an impact.

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by KSinmyrearviewmirror

@mshultz: Housing is expensive in Hays, and I doubt that population density, relative isolation, and the cost of gasoline have much to do with it. Hays has a state university, but so does Pittsburg, where housing costs are much less.

So, what do you think has much to do with it? You are aware that SE KS was the most densely populated region of KS, up until the decline of mining?

Up until 1980, Hays was ~ 1/2 the pop. of Pittsburg. This site shows the 2 cities side-by-side (easy to discern pop. differences: Historical Population of the 25 largest cities in Kansas

The counties surrounding Crawford have pop. 3-4 times that of the counties surrounding Hays => greater # of housing units available. I'd be surprised that demand matches supply. Cessna & Amazon closing facilities in SE KS no doubt emptied rentals.

Kansas Population Density County Rank
Rank Population Density ▼ County / Population

10. 66.0/sq mi Crawford, KS / 39,277
20. 35.8/sq mi Cherokee, KS / 21,179
23. 32.5/sq mi Labette, KS / 21,225

24. 32.1/sq mi Ellis, KS / 28,878
59. 7.7/sq mi Russell, KS / 6,959
70. 5.8/sq mi Rooks, KS / 5,174
78. 4.5/sq mi Rush, KS / 3,222
88. 3.3/sq mi Trego, KS / 2,959

Population density has declined significantly in SE Kansas counties since 2010 with the exception of Crawford. Sharp population declines almost always put significantly downward pressure on median house prices.

Calculate the new numbers using the updated 2017 census data here:
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fa...e/US/PST045217

[mshultz]

The reason for high housing costs is not something I dwell on, as it is beyond my control. My concern over housing costs is whether I could afford to live in a given area. $200,000 is about my maximum, and Hays is very close to that now. Really low housing costs would also be a concern due to poverty and crime.

However, one factor for the high housing costs in Hays could be the limited availability of water. Hays is too far west for abundant rainfall, and does not have access to the Ogallala aquifer. It will be interesting to see how the pipeline from the R9 ranch affects development when it is eventually approved and built.

I like to tell people back in Wooster that you need a permit to wash your siding in Hays, and that it is only granted if you are preparing to repaint your siding. If you visit Wooster this year, feel free to use as much water as you like; it has been a really wet year so far.

[thriftylefty]

Seems like I read somewhere that over 60% of the houses in Pittsburg were built before 1960. The Landlord business which has probably already peaked kept too many dilapidated houses in the market which drives property tax revenues down for the city government.

[SOS1]

I am considering moving to Hays to work at the medical center. There is a very good job there that would pay me double what I would make in Kansas City.
However, I am shocked at the housing in the city.
There is virtually nowhere I would consider acceptable to live.
All of the houses are old, ugly, ranch-style, and overpriced. Landscaping and curb appeal is horrendous.
I would consider renting, but there isn't even any decent new construction apartments or townhomes.
The very limited new construction houses are tiny single-story houses that appear cheaply constructed on tiny lots with no trees built literally right next to the interstate. The prices they are charging for these are appalling and probably 50% more than what they would cost in a nice Kansas City or Wichita suburb.
Even the houses next to the golf course, the nicest area, are from the 70s and 80s and are just plain ugly.
I would consider building an acceptable house, but there are no reasonable lots, and it would probably cost >$500k to do so, and I don't see how I could ever sell something like that when the entire market is full of 900 sq. ft. shacks from the 1940s selling for $150k.

Can somebody help me understand this ridiculous real estate situation for such an otherwise modern town? Literally the entire city looks like it is stuck in the 1970s. Not a single modern building.

[Jayhawker434]

Originally Posted by SOS1

I am considering moving to Hays to work at the medical center. There is a very good job there that would pay me double what I would make in Kansas City.
However, I am shocked at the housing in the city.
There is virtually nowhere I would consider acceptable to live.
All of the houses are old, ugly, ranch-style, and overpriced. Landscaping and curb appeal is horrendous.
I would consider renting, but there isn't even any decent new construction apartments or townhomes.
The very limited new construction houses are tiny single-story houses that appear cheaply constructed on tiny lots with no trees built literally right next to the interstate. The prices they are charging for these are appalling and probably 50% more than what they would cost in a nice Kansas City or Wichita suburb.
Even the houses next to the golf course, the nicest area, are from the 70s and 80s and are just plain ugly.
I would consider building an acceptable house, but there are no reasonable lots, and it would probably cost >$500k to do so, and I don't see how I could ever sell something like that when the entire market is full of 900 sq. ft. shacks from the 1940s selling for $150k.

Can somebody help me understand this ridiculous real estate situation for such an otherwise modern town? Literally the entire city looks like it is stuck in the 1970s. Not a single modern building.

There are new houses and buildings in west and east Hays. Everything west of the golf course is pretty much less than 20 years old. There's new buildings on the east side of town around the hospital.

Its a small town with a solid but relatively low growth rate so its not going to look like metro KC. I grew up in the Hays area and always thought the west side of town was pretty nice, at least for the great plains. If you decide to take the job, I'd buy a modest house with plans to evaluate Hays and your career there for a year or 2. If you like it you can upgrade and if you don't you won't be trying to sell a big/expensive house. You could always look in the surrounding towns like Plainville, Ellis, etc too.